Re-Repaint

Post your photos of Repairs and/or Outfitting projects

Re-Repaint

Postby Barry L » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:43 am

I have been kinda ignoring some paint issues on the old girl for a while. Those damned little paint splits that I have been fighting keep coming back to mess with my peace and tranquility. Almost too small to see, but big enough to soak up water after a boat wash when they do show up. My plan was to grind out the cracks and fill them with epoxy like I have done in the past but after getting started I realized there were too many and doing a decent job around the teak trim was going to be above my skill level. So Off with the trim and all of the old paint. Glass cloth set in epoxy to follow. Areas of the old girl where I have done this in the past (like the front of the bridge) have held up very well. Since the boat and I were going to be a mess I went ahead and attacked the bridge sides also. I am glad I have good boat neighbors!
Barry and Debbie
1970 Grand Banks 36' Classic #198
"Grand Travail"
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Postby Stretch Head » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:42 am

You should give the epoxy I am using a try. It's a slow cure, 2 to 1 mix and it soaks into the wood better than any I have used before. It is easy to apply with a roller or brush and pretty much self leveling. I was getting those splits too and soaking them with penetrating epoxy, epoxy primer and paint but they came back. They won't with the gel coat. Also, you can sand to a smooth finish and paint directly on it without a primer coat.

MAX GPE just look on eBay for that and they sell quart or gallon kits. I use a scale to measure but the weight isn't the same. The formula I use is I take half of the weight of the resin, it contains the white pigment so it weighs more, then times it by .75 (75%) for the catalyst weight. Otherwise I pour into graduated cups 2 to 1.
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Postby Barry L » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:54 am

Thanks Stretch, I will definitely check that out. I am still mad at myself for not glassing the entire boat when we had all of the teak off.
Barry
Barry and Debbie

1970 Grand Banks 36' Classic #198

"Grand Travail"
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Postby GB42-267 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:52 pm

I'm quite sure all of us with an older woodie are fighting the same battle. I strongly believe that the only permanent cure for checkered plywood is either to replace it or take it down to bare wood and cover it with cloth as Barry describes in his post.
I have gouged and epoxy filled checkered plywood for many years now. Where the veneer is checkered it is also usually de-laminating and failing. I have found it very important to remove all of the affected veneer and soak it in CPES and fill with thickener epoxy or a good quality epoxy fairing compound. This have worked so far and I have also discovered that CPES alone isn't good enough since it will not act as an adhesive and have no bonding quality to restore to bond of the affected veneer. To completely remove all teak trims and strip all paint from the plywood, prep and glass it over is no small task, but in my opinion the only permanent solution.
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Postby Stretch Head » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:31 am

I have done that Bjorn. I found it isn't always permanent. I am now using the slow cure epoxy that does soak into the wood better and fills the gaps where the delaminating occurs. I've yet to see that fail.
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Postby Rod Graff » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:01 pm

Stretch,

I have looked at the site, and they list several different varieties of the max GPE. What is the part number on the bottles for the one you are using? Are you soaking the plywood with CPES and letting it cure, or are you using the max GPE directly over bare wood? I have the front of the fly bridge to do and was going to remove the paint, grind out as much of the checking as I can, treat with CPES, and spread West thickened Epoxy over that. I would like to try your solution. I really don't want to start laying cloth. Sounds like you are using a pigmented version. Are you painting directly over that, or using a primer first?
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Postby abcrouch » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:13 pm

I am very interested in this discussion as I had painted the sides and rear sections of my cockpit maybe a year ago and it looked great until a month or more ago. A very wet winter has taken it's toll on this old boat. Very small bubbles appeared (very difficult to photograph) so I rubbed it all down and I was possibly thinking of taking it down to bare wood and then using CPES prior to new paint, but now I am wondering if I should try Stretch's approach with MAX GPE. I don't really want to do this job twice, as I am having trouble keeping up with all the paint & varnish!
I will try to post these photo's which I took after sanding back some of the offending areas.
It is not apparent to me where it is finding the water but the back of this plywood is of course unpainted and so it gets damp somehow. Back and top I imagine, bottom area looks pretty good.
As always comments and advice much appreciated. Alan.
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Postby JJKORN » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:00 pm

Allen,

We had the same problem with the 405 .. and before I bit the bullet and stripped the entire house exterior .. from the bridge rail to the deck (3 months work) .. had the same issues in the rear cockpit.

I was curious why the small cracks didn't appear in the aft corners and only re-started about 18" out from each .. until I decided to bite another bullet, and strip the cockpit.
One of the PO's had had the corners replaced with new wood and glass/epoxie finishings .. paint would last there but not on the raw wood ..
Probably should have done some more research, but I put two thin coats of West Glass on the wood after stripping and then 2 coats of paint.

So far .. 3 years problem solved.

Here are some pix ... strip .. glass .. paint

Jeff Korn
"The 405"
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Postby JJKORN » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:08 pm

Barry,

I'm with you man .. I wish I had glassed the entire exterior when I had it down to the wood.

As it is, last summer I had to strip (again) the bottom of the bridge and the edges at the top of the house at the trim joints and drip rail .. and yes I did glass them this time !!

Give me another 20 years and I will be able to confuse the GB experts with a "fiberglass" 32 ... produced before the official changeover, since the 405 is only 20 or so from the end of the woodies. !!! GGGGG

Jeff Korn
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Postby Rod Graff » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:12 pm

We have to tear each side out and completely replace the plywood. GB did not seal the edges of their plywood, and if you look at the joint between the side ceiling and the subdeck there is a semi open corner joint where water that gets under the teak deck can enter the plywood. Water also enters above through the stanchions. I'll bet most of your checking and peeling is due to the plywood sucking up moisture. This area has very poor ventilation, as does the whole lazarette in general.
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Postby Rod Graff » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:22 pm

We have to tear each side out and completely replace the plywood. GB did not seal the edges of their plywood, and if you look at the joint between the side ceiling and the subdeck there is a semi open but joint where water that gets under the teak deck can enter the plywood. Water also enters above through the stanchions. I'll bet most of your checking and peeling is due to the plywood sucking up moisture.
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Postby Rod Graff » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:05 pm

We finished the new cockpit cieling sides, but left the rear panel intact. It had some paint splitting around the vent openings, but i just faired it, primed and re painted. There was no rot in this piece. If the outside is sealed with glass cloth, I believe the piece will eventually rot from the inside out, as it is still sucking up moisture from all of the unpainted edges and back where Grand Banks did not seal. I think the splitting occurs when the moisture that has entered the wood attempts to escape, when the sun is beating down on the wood. The lazarette deck is a very problematic area for us. Rain water sits on the deck as it is not crowned, and will leak into the subdeck, and run into the bottom edges of that plywood. It also gets in thru the top along the seam between the teak deck nosing and the plywood. This area has very poor ventilation. The cockpit is similar to a recessed deck in the roof of a house. They always leak. We are now in the process of cutting out all of the lazarette deck seams and re caulking. Trying to get this area done before the rain starts.
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Re: Re-Repaint

Postby Rod Graff » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:42 pm

We wooded and coated the three front panels of the fly bridge with CPES. We repaired some areas where the plywood was checking by removing the loose slivers, and filling in with thickened epoxy. We let the CPES cure several days, and lightly sanded it, then rolled on three coats of MAX GPE pigmented white epoxy. One thing we found out is that this epoxy does not coat over CPES well. It forms fish eyes no mater how well we prep the surface. I tried it over bare plywood, and no fish eyes. The MAX GPE must be painted or primed, as the sun ruined the nice glossy finish in a few days. We have primed over the epoxy, but now the cold weather and rain are here, so it will be very difficult to paint until spring. I didn’t like the fact that the CPES with MAX GPE overcoat forms fisheyes, as it ruins the smooth finish.
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Re: Re-Repaint

Postby Charlie0 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:47 am

I am going to guess that the CPES leaves a blush after drying and should be washed with a little soap and water after it cures. Common with epoxies.
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Re: Re-Repaint

Postby Rod Graff » Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:10 pm

We washed, sanded, rubbed down with acetone, etc, and were not able to eliminate getting the fish eyes. I’ve never had a problem with paint over CPES, but it seems to have an issue with this thin gel coat like epoxy. I’ll try to clean it better next time I try it.
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