Oil in Fuel

For Grand Banks, Alaskans, East Bay & Aleutian Yachts

Postby Ron Houghtelling » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:05 pm

Help! I have a 1971 36 with twin 120s. They have the Simms pumps. I have noticed that I am geting fuel in my crankcase oil. The oil; level was a couple of Qts high, so I drained off several Qts and refilled to get home. <P>I don't know how long It took to get that high, My dip sticks are hard to read, and I haven't had the chance to calibrate them yet. The oil was noticibly thiner than the other engine.<P>I suspect that the problem is with the pump. I have seen similar problems on automotive diesel engines. Fuel leaks from the pump through a bad O-ring and into the crankcase. Has anyone seen this before?? Please tell me there is a O-ring or seal that can be easily replaced to fix the problem.<P>The engines are old, but only have 1600 hrs on them. They run great. This is the first sign of trouble I have seen.<P>Thanks,<P>Ron H.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ron Houghtelling
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:00 am
Location: St. Helens, OR, US

Postby Ron Houghtelling » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:50 pm

Ooops, That is Fuel in the Oil...
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ron Houghtelling
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:00 am
Location: St. Helens, OR, US

Postby Ron Houghtelling » Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:14 pm

Ok, I think I answered my own question. I talked to the guys at American Diesel. They told me the only 2 ways to get fuel into the crankcase is if a fuel return line from one of the injectors is leaking/loose,(I guess this happens a lot) or if the diaphram in the lift pump is broken.<P>I am very relieved that this is not a injector pump issue. A new lift pump is only $67.50. I would probably have to sell my house to afford a new injector pump. Think I will buy 2 lift pumps and keep one with my spare parts...<P>The return fuel lines can be tested by removing the rocker arm cover and blowing LOW pressure air back through the fuel return line. Sounds simple enough. I will let you all know how it goes...
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ron Houghtelling
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:00 am
Location: St. Helens, OR, US

Postby Tom Overs » Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:57 am

Ron<BR>Good info re the low air test for the fuel return line, I have been worried about this as there are no copper washers to seal these (banjo) bolts on Little Ship.<BR>I will test mine once I've got it back together before starting her up.<BR>Thanks<BR>Tom<P>------------------<BR>Tom Overs <BR>Little Ship<BR>GB32 390<p>[This message has been edited by Tom Overs (edited 03-08-05).]
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
User avatar
Tom Overs
Posts: 2971
Joined: Fri May 24, 2002 2:00 am
Location: England
Supporting Member

Postby Richard Werner » Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:03 pm

Tom: I am quite sure that there are supposed to be copper washers on either side of the banjo fitting on the fuel leak-off pipe. That is how I remember it from removing/replacing injectors last year.<P>Rich W.<BR>GB32-277
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
User avatar
Richard Werner
Posts: 884
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 1999 2:00 am
Location: Seattle, WA USA
Supporting Member

Postby Keith Morris » Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:40 pm

Richard is correct, there is definately supposed to be copper washers on both sides of those banjo bolts. If removed, I would not re-use them because the banjo leaves indentations on the washers. American Diesel will mail them to you.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
User avatar
Keith Morris
Posts: 1746
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 2:00 am
Location: Manchester, WA
Supporting Member

Postby Tom Overs » Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:59 pm

Looks like another upgrade to this engine.<P>Thanks for the info, neither my manual or indeed either of the gasket sets have these washers in them and I was concerned but was going to test with the rocker off to see if they did indeed leak.<P>Only 3 more days to play time??<BR>Tom.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Tom Overs <BR>Little Ship<BR>GB32 390
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
User avatar
Tom Overs
Posts: 2971
Joined: Fri May 24, 2002 2:00 am
Location: England
Supporting Member

Postby KenG » Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:48 pm

Ron,<P>I just went through this drill. It took me almost a year to finally discover the source of the leak. Low pressure air from a hand bicycle pump kept showing just a touch of pink at the banjo fitting on # 3 and # 5 injector. I did replace all copper washers. and retorqued, twice. Also replaved the fuel lift pump in case of fractured diaphragm. Finally ordered a replacement leak-off rail. When I removed the old one I found the soldered sweat joints between the steel tube of the rail and the bronze (I think) banjo fittings on #3 and #5 were loose. I think I'll try to make a jig and resolder those two and save the old rail as spare. Incidently the new rail is not built that way looks like all welded. I found running the engine with the valve cover off was easier than the bicycle pump drill (not enough hands) and provided an immediate indication on a white paper towel. I kept Rpm at less than 1000 and had no splashing or squirting.<BR>Tom - I believe early manuals did not specify copper washers, but current recommendations are use them above and below the banjo. American Diesel has the washers if you can't find something that will work. I have a friend with a boat without the washers and he has no problems. I guess maybe it's another case of don't fix it unless it's broken.<P>------------------<BR>Ken Graham<BR><b>GRAND CRU<BR>36-202<p>[This message has been edited by KenG (edited 03-12-05).]
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
KenG
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 1999 2:00 am
Location: Napa, CA USA
Supporting Member

Postby kdibnah » Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:05 pm

If you don't have access to new washers, you can anneal the old ones by heating 'em with a torch and polish them flat by running them over a piece of 400 grit wet-or-dry, supported on a flat surface (like a piece of glass).
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
User avatar
kdibnah
Posts: 2538
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:00 am
Location: West Vancouver, BC
Supporting Member

Postby Tom Overs » Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:57 pm

Ken,<BR>Thanks for the information. When I stripped my engine it didnt have any copper washers on the banjo screws. I called into my local engineering shop and bought some over the counter, ( oh I wish I had that shop at the marina). Paid 1.00 for fifteen of them?<BR>Little Ship now has another modification to the engine.<BR>All the best<BR>Tom<BR><P>------------------<BR>Tom Overs <BR>Little Ship<BR>GB32 390
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
User avatar
Tom Overs
Posts: 2971
Joined: Fri May 24, 2002 2:00 am
Location: England
Supporting Member

Re: Oil in Fuel

Postby Berger » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:53 am

I had the same issue with my leak off pipe and will be replacing it. The existing pipe did not have the washers and Brian at AD told me NOT to put them on if I didn't have them in the first place. He said the existing bolts will not be long enough, I asked him if I could buy longer bolts and he said they don't make them anymore.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Berger
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:02 pm
Location: San Francisco
Supporting Member


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 11 guests